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Flood göndermek, insanların floodlarını okumak ve diğer insanlarla bağlantı kurmak için sosyal Floodlar ve Flood Yanıtları Motorumuza kaydolun.

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Flood göndermek, insanların floodlarını okumak ve diğer insanlarla bağlantı kurmak için sosyal Floodlar ve Flood Yanıtları Motorumuza giriş yapın.

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3 ve kadim dostu 1 olan sj'yi rakamla giriniz. ( 31 )

Üzgünüz, Flood yazma yetkiniz yok, Flood girmek için giriş yapmalısınız.

Lütfen bu Floodun neden bildirilmesi gerektiğini düşündüğünüzü kısaca açıklayın.

Lütfen bu cevabın neden bildirilmesi gerektiğini kısaca açıklayın.

Please briefly explain why you feel this user should be reported.

The SMR drama has confirmed two things

The three biggest HDD manufacturers are clearly communicating with each other and working together. Why else did they sell SMR drives under the guise of regular drives at the same time? Inb4 “it was just a coincidence lololol!”.

Internal HDDs are still expensive and prices will most likely never drop. This screams price fixing. Again, we know for a fact that they are scheming together. At this point, we’ll most likely never see a $100 storage device at 20TB until our great great grandkids are born and that’s not an exaggeration.

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33 Yorumları

  1. *we’ll most likely never see a $100 storage device at 20TB until our great great grandkids are born and that’s not an exaggeration.*

    ​

    I can’t have children, so joke’s on you.

  2. When has “corporations” and “capitalism” ever NOT been about ripping people off? Hope they get in deep shit, then again (((they))) run the show.

  3. For it seems like, they are trying to sell you the same product from 5 years ago with No effort (or very minimal) on improving the product.And they rebrand it as NAS drive. We pay premium. Few months back, I was surprised price per giga is lower with Exos enterprise drive vs NAS drive iron wolf/pro. I stopped buying NAS drive and opted directly with Enterprise drive like Exos.
    I think they thought that we are not smart enough. Eventually, they got caught.

  4. Well, we could file a complaint at the EU, ms Verstager is very keen to hear about these issues.

  5. Did you see financial reports on wdc? Do you know a difference between a wd red and an ultrastar?

    I remember buying 2tb green in 2011 at 60 euro vat included. Today i buy wd red 4tb at 80 euro( amazon warehouse). Prices are high, it is true.

    Are they fixed? Maybe. Is wdc making a lot of money? No, it is a cyclical company.

    Ssd prices fall because they started with slc, mlc, tlc and now they use qlc. Tbw is ridiculous. Micron with a p1 gives you 300 full rewrites. Same company has higher prices for enterprise ssd.

    For wdc, hgst is the same. Smr drives will cost less for consumers but they aren’t so good. And ultrastar drive, the datacenter sas drives, cost more.

    You pay technology and quality. Fixed prices are needed to maintain the business, the stock value, etc.

    Think, is an iphone really a good bargain for 1500 euro? Since 2008 the price has almost tripled.

    The same is for intel processors and nvidia gpus.

    Fewers the players, higher the prices to pay.

  6. I’d like to see hard facts about the post-thailand-flood-conspirancy. All I see is exceedingly high demand by data centers, growing each year, because everything needs cloud data nowadays. Plus private consumer demand for spinning disks decreased because SSD storage got cheaper. Both things brought manufacturers to “innovate” and they came up with SMR as a sales point.

  7. Quite likely true. Follow the money.

    Corporations exist solely to make money and fuck you over.

    There have been multiple price fixing class action lawsuits.l already, right?

    Optical drives, maybe hard drives too, I forget.

  8. This isn’t supposed to happen in Capitalism™.

    They’re supposed to fight each other to the death so you can have dirt cheap drives.

    We live in reality and not theory though :p

  9. I am sure that large tech companies selling commodified products do regularly engage in price fixing of various sorts. They get caught, a few relatively low level people go to prison, fines are paid, rinse and repeat. DRAM and optical drive makers all have been sued recently.

  10. Can someone explain this like I am 5? I “kind of” understand what SMR is. Basically I understand that it performs far worse and doesn’t last as long. I had a Seagate SMR drive a few years back that lasted all of 3 months. All three of my WD Reds (one 3TB, two 8TB) are going on 3 years old and running strong.

  11. SSDs require chip prices to stay low. They can’t compete on a cost/capacity. WD, Seagate and Toshiba know it. All they have to do is remain under the SSD cost to be relevant.

    SSDs haven’t made a drastic leap in cost capacity so the HDD manufacturers are sitting with prices they had set at certain capacities.

    Good old fashioned price fixing.

    SMR just cuts down costs because they can run on air so manufacturing costs are less.

  12. I’m certain each manufacturer buys their competition’s products and disassembles them to see what they’re up to. They could have noticed one manufacturer using SMR drives in applications they might normally not and decide they could too.

    I’m not saying collusion between the brands is impossible, it’s just not necessarily confirmed.

  13. Pretty sure it’s not a coincidence but drive makers tend to face same challenges and overcome them through similar approaches. Also it’s not rocket science to buy a competitor’s drive from the market and reverse engineer them.

    Remember storage is cyclical business. The HDD makers need to account for expenses even when volumes are low. The drive complexity increases non linearly with capacity driving up manufacturing and development cost.

    Also larger capacities take longer to manufacture but this doesn’t increase linearly with capacity. So a drive maker with limited manufacturing capacity has to make a trade off between manufacturing high end datacenter drives or lower end consumer drives. In this tradeoff, the consumer drive prices goes up

  14. Sure there’s some degree of price fixing, happens everywhere, doesn’t even need a conspiracy, it happens organically since companies want to earn a profit, so at some point it’s not worth it for them to lower their prices further in order to be more competitive, it’s a balancing act.

    Stuff like SMR doesn’t actually make drives cheaper, at least not to a significant degree, it just means that they can push drive sizes further.
    They are becoming cheaper, though not consistently so, it’s just going really slowly, but as someone else pointed out, because of inflation, even fixed prices means they are becoming cheaper over time.

    There’s just not yet that much impetus to actually make drives cheaper R&D are more focused on increasing storage density, reliability and performance, mostly in that order.

    There’s also certain fixed costs with mechanical harddrives that puts a lower limit in how cheap they can be, it’s why the lowest capacities usually give you worse Gb/$.
    They probably won’t have a strong push to make mechanical drives cheaper until SSDs start getting closer in price, though at that point mechanical drives might just become an obsolete technology instead.

    I paid approximately twice for my new 8 TB drive, for what I did for a 2 TB drive 5-6 year ago, so the TB/$ price have improved a lot, it just takes time.

    $100 storage devices at 20 TB will happen at some point, it just might not be a traditional mechanical drives, and it will be a while, but it won’t take generations to reach that point.

  15. A $100 20tb drive in 10 years will be good. Inflation and all that. As long as drives keep getting bigger and stay the same price. That’s not bad

  16. We should create a wiki entry here or some kind of list(maybe a gitlab repo?) where we collect the information about the drives.

  17. I soon want to buy a few 12-14TB easystores, i hope that the don’t change them to smr soon.

  18. Third thing confirmed: their contempt for their customers.

  19. Price fixing is only illegal in national law. Internationally its done and called politics. All the oil producing nations agree on how much oil they put on the market each year to keep prices high. Why would international tech be any different?

  20. we known this for years when ram prices drove up HD prices. Really these companies are scams of the computer world. Watch their prices drop when nvme m.2 capacity goes up to 2-16 TB become mainstream.

  21. [https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-cost-per-gigabyte/](https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-cost-per-gigabyte/)

    [https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm](https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm)

    “prices will most likely never drop”

    But… but they ARE dropping…

    I mean, sure, it’s always fun for the masses to laugh at, what you define to be, Capitalism. But the facts are different.

  22. Rotational hard drives have been price fixed ever since the Thailand flood in 2011. Back then there was a very steady and predictable price drop that matched the increase in storage density. Immediately after the flood, prices stopped falling and recently have been *increasing.*

    I have have been watching prices very closely since then, and it’s very obvious. Once 2TB drives when into short supply during the floods, all newer models maintained the same $/GB and simply cost more. The typical decline in price since then was very slow and did not match the increase in capacity.

    I have 8TB drives that I bought in 2018 for $110 USD ($0.01375/GB). Today, they are worth $140 USD new. Two years later, and my used hardware has increased in value. I have the receipts to prove it.

    My guess is that they are fixing prices until SSD drives are competitive replacements. Then maybe there will be some corporate takeovers to seize market share.

  23. I could see this blowing up in similar fashion to the whole RAM price fixing incident… this is going to be fun to watch.

  24. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think they’re actively working together to coordinate drive releases and price fixing. I think it’s just entirely, “Well, seagate/WD isn’t undercutting us so why bother lowering our prices?” The failure rate is low enough across the board (shut up WD fanboys) that any drive you buy is just fine, so there’s no incentive to buy one company over the other. So, just an educated guess here, their sales are about the same.

    One company dropping their prices to grab a larger market chunk could only cause the other to drop and start a price war that hurts both’s total revenue in the end. Not coordination between them, just a general “who gives a fuck?” The only competition between them is in the datacenter TB/drive segment.

    SMR drive releases – either one started it and the others copied without saying anything, or coincidence because they’re trying to keep prices the same while they further enlarge their margins.

    I could be entirely wrong, but all the HDD manufacturer’s getting together to have a discussion on how they’re going to screw over consumers seems pretty far fetched. They’re not very competitive on the consumer end, but the datacenter end is completely different

  25. I think your definitions of fact and clearly are different than mine.

  26. That’s really unfortunate. Storage devices are still very expensive and they are getting worse (speaking for both ssds and hdds) in terms of reliability and performance.

  27. Yup, 4TB drives are still as expensive as when they where first released. A 1TB drive should be obsolete at this point? How do they even make these, a separate production line that still spits out 0.5TB per platter?

  28. > Why else did they sell SMR drives under the guise of regular drives at the same time?

    Same reason they all started selling PMR at same time. Or GMR.

  29. You’ll see 20tb cheap one day, but it’ll be SSD.

  30. The Myth of Capitalism is an excellent book on the topic of duopolies and tacit collusion. Would recommend if this type of stuff doesn’t sit well with you. Need more free market competition.