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3 ve kadim dostu 1 olan sj'yi rakamla giriniz. ( 31 )

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Please briefly explain why you feel this user should be reported.

If you value your data and sanity, don’t buy QNAP.

TL;DR: QNAP’s support is horrible for the hardware that is garbage running software that is garbage and insecure.

Most important security issue: The root password for all QES appliances up to (but not including) version 2.1.1 build 20200525 is ‘qnapsupport’. They won’t give it to you. You cannot change it. Not fucking kidding. We reported it. They eventually fixed it after we griped enough. They still haven’t disclosed it and at this point I don’t care.)

Here is the saga of my experience with QNAP’s hardware and support in a semi-enterprise data-hoarding environment.

About a year ago we purchased a TDS-16489U R2 (“the NAS”) from QNAP. We purchased it because it was compatible with QNAP Enterprise Software (“QES”). QES uses BSD and ZFS and offers a more ‘enterprise’ feel. Immediately there were problems.

Out of the box the system had failing hardware. The memory was throwing uncorrectable ECC errors into the SMC. QNAP support was less than helpful. It took 3 days of back and forward to get them to replace the device. Even after showing them screenshots from the SMC they wanted to try other stuff. QNAP also doesn’t do advanced replacement. Luckily we were still in the phase of deploying the hardware so not a big deal.

Our replacement chassis was an adjacent serial number to ours, this will be important later.

All complaints in this post were communicated to QNAP.

Immediate limitations and issues we noticed (ranked by biggest pile of horse shit to least, skip to end of list for continuation of story):

– Falsely advertised iKVM support. QNAP claims the iKVM won’t work with QES but will work with QTS. At the time we bought it the exception was NOT on their website. WE are the reason they put it there. This is complete and total bullshit and nonsense. iKVM runs on the BMC controller and has nothing to do with the operating system. The problems are twofold. One, it’s using a DEFAULT self-signed certificate FROM THE iKVM CHIP MAKER for the iKVM and it is trying to transmit a .jnlp file that’s not as big as what the ‘Content-Length’ header indicates. QNAP’s only statement is that the iKVM won’t work with QES. They won’t even try and fix it. It’s clear their engineers and developers have no idea how a BMC works.

– IPMI Web interface doesn’t have strong ciphers enabled and has NULL cipher (means shit is transmitted in plaintext) enabled. the IPMI Web interface doesn’t use ciphers compatible with modern browsers. Oh yeah they also have the NULL cipher enabled. Communicated this to them. Was never fixed. They want me to be their monkey to test builds on MY HARDWARE.

– IPMI Constantly logging temperature / RPM problems. We constantly would get alerts for every single drive, every single fan, every single temperature sensors that they were out of range. QNAP attempted a fix. Couldn’t fix it. We gave up caring. Again they wanted me to be their test monkey. (Oh yeah they wanted me to download the software from a fucking unbranded dropbox link… that’s not sketchy AT ALL)

– Cannot create a raidz2 (RAID6) device with more than 10 devices using the GUI.In fact they had a blog post showing them creating raidz2 with 16 devices). This is an arbitrary limit that QNAP introduced. In fact they had advertising material posted (https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/tutorial/article/use-qnap-qes-series-to-build-a-large-capacity-storage-system/) that made us believe this limit doesn’t exist. They STILL have the fucking thing up even after I pointed out they made it impossible for that scenario to occur.

– Cannot Service bind per IP address. You can only service bind per physical interface. So if you have multiple VLANs on a single interface, it’s all or nothing. So much for disabling services you don’t want exposed on a certain subnet. (Still doesn’t exist)

– Cannot disable IPV4 on an interface like you can IPV6 (Still doesn’t exist)

– Cannot set MTU on a trunked interface. (Still doesn’t exist)

– No SMB multichannel support. (Still doesn’t exist)

So at this point we gave up on some of this realizing we’ll never get the features. QNAP’s support is horrible and slow. Now we come to our first upgrade. QNAP releases 2.1.0 of QES and we notice some bugfixes are in it that could apply to some things we see. We apply the update. As a result, we can’t edit SMB shares anymore? We just get an error. Turns out they added a new option to the SMB shares without setting a default value, so the UI would glitch out. How in the hell did this upgrade get past QA? By my own troubleshooting I figured the new field would get set if I edited it in the CLI so I did. Then the GUI started working. You’re welcome QNAP for fixing YOUR problem for YOU.

Skip forward about 3-4 months, we now decide to stick a cache in the server. We buy QNAP’s card for shoving 4 NVMe drives into a single PCI-E x16 slot. It does not use bifurcation, it uses a PCI-E switch onboard the hardware. It was confirmed compatible by QNAP’s compatibility matrix. It doesn’t work. It sees only one drive because their code is looking for the drives in the wrong places. BSD sees it just fine. So, another falsely advertised feature/compatibility item. How in the fuck did THIS make it past QA? Do they not test ANYTHING before shipping it!?

When I was digging around troubleshooting that issue, I noticed we were getting Machine Check Exceptions (MCEs). In BSD they call them MCAs. I start digging back, oh these have been here since we stood it up… Why is the IPMI not showing them? Well… probably because the IPMI is shit. Why is QES not noticing them? Probably because QES is shit. These were showing single bit ECC errors. At the same memory address once or twice a day (sometimes more and in no specific interval) So great, two appliances with memory issues. Remember how I said the serial number would be important? Yeah. Two appliances with memory issues with adjacent serials screams engineering defect, QA error, and/or manufacturer defect.

It’s been a week since I’ve brought up those last two issues and QNAP is absolutely fucking clueless.

At this point we’ve demanded they authorize our reseller to give us a full return and refund. We’re done. We’ve already prepped other things to do if they don’t cooperate.

Edit: I forgot the latest issue. A drive failed and we were unable to get the chassis to detect the replacement drive. We had to power cycle the chassis. The SAS expander had locked out the slot due to communication failure counts. What’s the point of hot-swap if it doesn’t work right?

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  1. Thanks for the lengthy write-up. I will avoid QNAP to keep my sanity intact.

  2. You should cross post this over on /r/qnap .. at minimum it gives them a middle finger, but they have an employee who floats around there, he may be able to help.

  3. Gotta wonder how many of these flaws are equally present with Synology units.

  4. I had been considering a qnap, now I know not to buy one

  5. Having bought both major NAS brands (Synology and QNAP) for an office project, I’ll never buy QNAP again. A controller in the NAS failed 6 months after I bought it, disabling 4 of the 12 drives. QNAP wouldn’t do an RMA without accessing it remotely first, and the device was on an internal, very private network behind locked doors and requiring key card access. We weren’t going to let some random company access our network, so no RMA. It wasn’t worth the hassle to get it fixed – it was a 12 drive array that only cost us a few thousand dollars fully populated, and it didn’t have mission critical data on it (mainly build artifacts from failed builds), so we just moved on.

    On the other hand, the Synology devices we bought, both nearly a decade old now, continue to work great even to this day. One of the devices has needed a couple replacement drives over the years, but the NAS hardware itself is rock solid.

  6. In a much smaller scale:

    QNAP offers an expansion with separate RAID-Controller, TR-004(U). That one is advertised with „RAID-Sets“, plural.

    So… it does not support RAID-Sets. One single Set is possible. Okay. Might be fine if it would have been said in any (!) documentation or advertising and therefore known by the costumer/me.

    Not only that only one (1) RAID-Set ist possible. The other two disks, in case you (me) are trying to use two RAID-1-Sets are completely useless. TR-004U is not able to use those disks, not even as independent ones.

    Another minor annoyance: in case of a firmware update you manually have to disconnect the expansion in QTS and power cycle it by hand. Yeah… no.

    Yep. I’m done with QNAP.

    At least the TS-431Xeu is running fine, if you don’t stress it to much.

    Edit: RAID-0 > RAID-1

  7. You should post this on the video production subreddit to give them some much needed perspective. Synology and QNAPs are great for that industry, but people need to know the pitfalls.

    I bought the exact same model as you for my previous company, although weirdly ours was not QTE… anyway, I had so many problems with QNAP firmware from day one that almost a year in, I just wiped the whole fucking thing, repLaced the boot drive with our own and installed CentOS on that thing and never looked back. Just managed the software as I would any other bare metal server and holy shit was it freeing. I have actually come to like the way the hardware is set up.

    Oh yeah and their IPMI implementations are such garbage. I don’t have the security issues you mentioned because my IPMI randomly stopped working and never came back! How bout that for a solution!

  8. Dang thank you very much for this. Micro center sells this and syncology seems like the best option now.

  9. I didnt have as many issues as you did, but I had the bavkplane apparently die and it would cause this slow spiral that corrupted all my data. I was 1 month out of warranty and they told me tough cookies and that it would cost some amount to look at it, and then at least 200 to fix it. I decided to get a refund through my CC company (double extended warranty actually came through). I took that refund and rolled it into a Synology….screw QNap.

  10. I’ve mentioned this in the past but I’ll post it again…

    I bought a TS-563 after Drobo fucked me with their proprietary RAID format. I was smart enough to have a backup of important data but I lost all of my media.

    1 month before the end of my warranty, the TS-563 starts reporting a drive as bad, so I replace it. A second drive fails during rebuild…okay, that’s fine, my mistake for buying drives in the same batch. Replaced second drive and rebuild finished. Few days later, the first drive I replaced is somehow bad.

    At this point I call QNAP because wtf. After some back and forth, they say the backplane must be failing, but they have no replacement parts for this model (which was still advertised on their website). They eventually offer me a replacement device that has one less bay and an ARM processor over the AMD in this one…fuck that. They finally say I can get a better model, but at my own expense minus the cost of the shitty replacement.

    By the time they offered me this “solution” my extended warranty kicked in through my credit card. I went through their bullshit and after a few months, finally got my full purchase amount returned. I built a NAS with second hand server parts from eBay using a build on /r/JDM_WAAT. It still ran fine but the CPU was getting slow so I upgraded my desktop PC and put my Ryzen 1700 in it instead.

    No more proprietary hardware for me.

  11. So I have an older ts451mini and it works fine for what I use it for. I also thought they had just renamed “root” to *admin” since that is where I updated the sudoers file at. Have not had any memory issues and I did test run hot swap but not with a bad drive. So far no detected hardware issues.

  12. I have had good runs with the QNAP’s I have, but after the first one – I NEVER use the software, as that appliance-OS is nothing but poop.

    It sounds like you got a bad model, which sucks donkeyballs – but that the OS is crap, is nothing new.

    I’m curious though, if ZFS was a major selling-point, why didn’t you talk to ixSystems?

  13. I’ve been hesitating between QNAP and Synology, but chose QNAP because it has proper full-disk encryption (not ecryptfs). I wish Synology would offer that as well, because I really don’t like QTS, which feels like slow horrific bash/cron/python abomination. I tried the Synology demo online, and it felt much cleaner.

  14. Honestly with your requirements, why not use FreeNAS on a Supermicro SuperStore rack server? I have multiple of these deployed with no issues whatsoever

    iXSystems offers an enterprise version as well (TrueNAS) If that’s what you’re looking for.

  15. My single experience with QNAP support was great. They replaced my failed hardware with a much better unit at no extra cost.

    Sounds like their enterprise stuff just isn’t ready though.

  16. While I understand and share your frustration about the software side of things, I have to agree with what others already said: you paid for a consumer/prosumer device with the corresponding support.

    If this device is mission critical to you, go with the known providers of storage arrays and get enterprise level support/security.

    There’s a reason enterprise support costs as much as the device after a couple of years and you get what you paid for.

    If you really plan on whiteboxing a freenas machine be prepared for many more bugs coming your way.

  17. > They won’t give it to you. You cannot change it.

    Stopped reading at this point and skimmed the rest. That’s a showstopper problem. Thanks for the information

  18. Infortrend have been good in my experience at work.

  19. Maybe I am asking the obvious here or I am overlooking some crucial point, but why would you want to buy anything that size from a company that started doing NAS for private customers? I am seeing 15k € and up prices for the appliance you got, for that price you can BTO any server from any of the big companies and then slap an UnRaid or TrueNAS/FreeNAS with enterprise support on it. Sure, you wont have one support line for hardware and software, but datacenter with running VMWare or Hyper-V dont have that too.

    And if you absolutely need hard- and software support all-in-one buy a full blown storage appliance with NAS features.

    I just get the feeling that with the price they are requesting I cant expect any stable or well functioning software from an “enterprise-ready” company building black-boxes. Working and stable appliances for the same purpose cost a bit more, but work infinitely better too.

  20. QNAP and Synology for me are the amateur data hoarding kit… I Never wanted to buy their overpriced hardware as much as people suggested it to me.

  21. I dont purchase ANY of this brands. I usually go with HP, or if the budget is tight dell, with a disk expansion cage, and use either ixssytems if i want support, or plain linux if the customer does not want support.

    Works like a charm.

  22. You are doing the work of the lord. I can only up vote once, but trust me I’m sharing this with all my fellow data hoarders.

  23. >QNAP is absolutely fucking clueless.

    Yea, happend to me. was a long time QNAP customer, until I had to contact their support, and at that point I stoped using QNAP. Still have two enclosures that I don’t want to sell, the last one the reseller went out of business and well.

    In in my case I had a catastrophic raid failure, or actually LVM. QNAP did nothing, even after sending logs, we argued for weeks why I cant give them remote access if they cant specify an IP adress so I could create a firewall rule for them.

    I just gave up and contacted Diskinternals. What did they do to help me? They made a special beta build of their software to try to recover my failed LVM, after spend hours troubleshooting. All that without me even having to buy the software. Thats what I call support.

  24. Same for thecus too, absolute nightmare to deal with.

    Best thing I ever did was switch to Synology after ground freenas for a while, but not being happy with the performance.

    Synology all the way.

  25. This is true. I will never buy a QNAP again. Horrible experience.

  26. I don’t know what you’re complaining about, OP. You’ve got hard-coded backdoors, malfunctioning hardware on day one, replacements that fail just like the first shipment, bureaucratic support, and even fancy Big Name Technology promises that fail in execution.

    That sounds exactly “enterprisey” to me!

  27. Historically I’ve always preferred Synology but to be honest never really had any bother from quite a few qnaps of various sizes in production. But then generally they’re just on prem backup repos so nothing special requirements wise needed.

    Online support for basic software bugs had been good to us too. Although they are pretty slow to respond and RMA can take an age.

  28. ah storage vendors… our experiences with NetApp would make a great novel… my favorite part was when they said our head tech could not even be in the same building as the netapp techs while they were on-site… ah good times

  29. Fair point qts is garbage I own one.. there hardware is really good.. I’ve got a 2 bay ts251+.. every part of there software from networking to virtual station feel limited.. also container station is crap in every way every time I want to run a docker. I have to pull the image first before deployment.. I also installed portainer to get around the limitations but it turns out container station dose something funky with docker and portainer doesn’t like it.. thinking about building a custom nas or using my old gaming desktop.. also I’m only limited to 8gbs of ram.. the celeron cpu ain’t bad for 24/7 use.. it it just not fast enough to run a lot of stuff at once and vms are super slow and only good for Linux.. also there way overpriced I paid like $700-$800au I’ve just out grown it in the space of 5 years.. also I’ve had to run it in raid 0 with a 8tb USB backup drive.. since I have 2x 4TB drives and I’ve over half filled it.. that’s just my rant

  30. Wow, that’s rough. Sorry you had to deal with that.

    It makes me grateful I live in a country that has really good consumer laws (Australia) so that companies do this shit have to give you a refund if you ask for it (and can face fines if they don’t, so they generally just give the refund).

  31. I had a QNAP device. I didn’t have any of these problems, but I had other problems. I agree 100% with your opinion of QNAP and of QNAP support. I replaced the QNAP device with an low-end iXsystems server running FreeNAS. 2x the price. 20x the satisfaction.

  32. Pro tip for both devs and users: a program/system’s ability to function quickly out if the box, and have good default settings (and/or automatically configure itself for good settings when you connect it up) is one of the best indicators of how good the software is. And for developers, this easy setup and startup should be a major priority – because it means you don’t need to follow a convoluted checklist every time you want to run a single software test. A better startup means the software is easier to test and further develop. So much else follows from that.

    So for my software, I go through great pains to make it “it just works” as possible. My latest things only require the user to input the authentication/serial key, and then it proceeds to figure itself out and configure based on the things connected to it. This makes it so much easier to test across a wide range of devices and use cases.

  33. What’s everyone doing these days (mostly Plex)? Some Dell R710s? I’m on QNAP and obviously won’t ever just chunk it out the window. It could become backup for the next NAS solution.

  34. This was a stomach wrenching read. Good lord…what a fucking nightmare. I’m glad you’re calling them out and jumping ship. After their awful handling of the malware I was hoping they would take their enterprise offerings more seriously, but augh, I’m not surprised.

    We jumped away to another BSD/ZFS based vendor and are pretty happy so far.

  35. I always thought Synology was expensive for the hardware you got, but had very nice software that made it worth it for the convenience. On the other hand, QNAP is a bit better value on the hardware side, but software was always lacking. If you want something specific, and you want it done right, you probably wouldn’t be in the market for an off-the-shelf consumer-friendly NAS in the first place. If you want to customize your ZFS, why not just build a FreeNAS box? If you want to buy something pre-made, iXsystems has an Amazon storefront.